I used Debian Etch for a long time even though several unstable versions of Lenny has been relased.So I thought to give it a shot for new Debian Lenny.So i downloaded Lenny Beta 2 DVD and the installation was smooth and easy.
Lenny comes with Gnome 2.22 and built in compiz and I think people that complained that Debian is not that much attractive would change there attitude.I heard that Ubuntu making there releases half a year using Debian testing code base , so its obvious that, even this Beta is stable than Ubuntu8.I am not condemning Ubuntu ,but I have some bad experiences with Ubuntu.I used it about ~2 months at work and it really gave me a headache.I couldn’t run one instance of Eclipse and Tomcat with some heavy weight applications (Sun IDM…etc) .System behaved even worst than Window$.Yeah, I same applications ran smoothly in Window$ than in Ubuntu.
Anyway I always liked Debian , because its giving me the “pure” “GNUish” and “open source” feeling.There is no doubt that Debian is the future of OS.Ubuntu well…my feeling is its sinking…It has become to a something like “linux for dummies”.
Whatever the linux distro you are using ,take a look at this advertisement by IBM :
Ashika learns to blog 
Debian is a fine distro…But it lacks things that make it feasible for the consumer desktop. Ubuntu takes debian and makes it more user friendly and easier to use, and that is what consumers want. It still doesnt matter, anyway, because linux will never become mainstream, never.
Never is a long time, bjb_ny101.
I use Debian Etch exclusively, all day, every day, indeed I rely on it for my living.
When Lenny becomes the Stable release I will migrate to it.
In this case I would estimate “Never” to be a figure in single digits. Cost, simplicity, and quality will prevail, sooner rather than later.
ubuntu with minimum 6 symbols password… sucks hard!
Well, once Debian figures out how to release regularly and update stable package branch in a timely manner, it might actually become better than Ubuntu. Until that happens, I will stick with Ubuntu’s 6 months release cycle. Gnome 2.22 will become dated a few months from now and Ubuntu will include new version in their next release. I would bet it will take months to make it into Debian stable (if ever) and years to make it into next Debian release.
“Gnome 2.22 will become dated a few months from now and Ubuntu will include new version in their next release. ”
And what happened with eg. Ubuntu 8.04? It’s buggy as hell. Internet is full of people talking about how ubuntu 8.04 crashes, randomly hangs etc. People are downgrading to previous Ubuntu release etc. Is that what you want?
I don’t really care about latest software versions, I want system which just works that’s why I use Debian. Latest software versions are usually wery buggy, it takes time to fix those bugs. Debian with same version of application X is much more stable and bug free than Ubuntu. Eg. Gnome 2.22 sure is much more stable on Debian than on ubuntu.
“and years to make it into next Debian release.”
Years? Lenny will be released 1.5 years after Etch was released. Actually only Debian release which has ever taken several years was Sarge.
My personal experiences match the authors.
Ubuntu is for the newbies, Debian is for the enterprise, Arch is for hacking!
I must also raise my voice in this matter. I have not left the Ubuntu world for good – rather taken a break. The 8.04 hardy heron was/is full of flaws. It’s somewhat bloated, and does not fit my current needs. I also downgraded to 7.10 – which may be the very best ubuntu release so far.
Debian is my current choice – and I suspect it will be for some time.
Guys , before take any serious decision about changing your Linux distro please read the following entry from same author , wrote just after one week .
http://groups.google.com/group/fossusers/browse_thread/thread/d26b3022ad8ace49
sagara , thats true.. i first had a freezing problem with lenny.But then I reinstalled and switch to KDE ,just for permanently..I found that this freezing issue comes mainly with GNOME.Anyway, keep in mind that Lenny is still in Beta stage,there can be several bugs…But I am sure after official release it will work like a Beast!!!
People, let’s not forget some things:
Ubuntu makes it (even with some bugs and problems) because of a smaller package base (we are talking about the Main repositoyr only, not universe or multiverse). Canonical stabilizes and supports only the 1/3 of the number of packages than Debian does. This means, only 6000 packages! While Debian tries to stabilize AND sync with different archs on a package base of 18000 packages! (This is the main repository of Debian).
Furthermore, ubuntu puts some more features in order to make the system more user-friendly, which makes the system more complex in structure. So, it’s more likely, especially if you use universe-multiverse-restricted repositories, to have some issues, always depending on your computer. Many problems are computer specific problems, problems that happen to more than two completely different computers are bugs, which must be reported immediately in order to fix your system.
Now, about Debian Lenny, it still suffers from many release-critical bugs and it’s not ready for a proper review. So, let’s wait until final release.
What Debian does nice is the way of testing and bug-fixing that makes it so “industrial” distro. Again, it’s user’s choice and computer’s relativity which distro you will choose. That is why we have live cds. And with debian you have choices! Either you choose stability and stay with outdated but well-tested solid-rock applications, or live on the edge and use unstable with caution. In the second case, I strongly recommend sidux! check http://www.sidux.com for more info.
To be added on previous comment:
So, we see that Debian needs more time to make a stable release, but stable for Debian is STABLE! Any problems that can be encountered after a new stable release is on the market are either computer-specific or bugs, as described above. In that case, one way to go: http://bugs.debian.org.
Yes, I prefer the pure and stable Debian. I have been trying to use some different distros based on Debian test but all of then is not stable enough.
I had a problem with flash
player. After installing, I started Firefox, opened youtube and entered a link to listen to. Then firefox crashed. I thought it was because of Orca (Orca is a screen reader for the blind). After installing Lenny, I installed flash player again and it was successfully running!
Although Debian is (slightly) less user-friendly than Ubuntu, you’ll find Debian Lenny (etch is horrible) more pleasant for the desktop than Ubuntu 8.04 once you’ve gained a little experience with Linux. Lenny is still in ‘Testing’ but is already very stable compared with Ubuntu. Having said that, if a newbie comes along, I’ll still whole-heartedly recommend Ubuntu as the first distro to try.
The problem with nearly all computer software, Linux included, is that it is always a work-in-progress that’s never finished. Its like living in a house thats always under construction, with builders and drop sheets every where you look. Just when some piece of software is almost complete and relatively stable, it will get replace with a bug ridden beta version of a new piece of software that is set to replace it.
Corporations need to keep software continually on the move to generate revenue to keep the company alive. With Linux I guess part of motivation to keep it all in flux is because it gives the hackers who write it something fun to do.
If you want or need to use computers, then you have to get used to using things that are always experimental and unfinished.
I won’t go on and on about how Debian is so great but side by side on the same system Debian Lenny with KDE mops the floor against Ubuntu 8.10 in regards to perfromance on my system. I have them dual booted and I’m sold. I’m getting Slackware-like performance out of this thing! Back to Debian for me. I was out after Potato but I’m back. Dated software and snotty freedom zealots be damned, I want stability on my office workstation when I have a business to run! It’s just to bad that KDE 4.x had to turn out like it did. I was just getting to enjoy KDE 3.5 after a couple years with Gnome and XFCE.
Peter Said…….
“”you’ll find Debian Lenny (etch is horrible) more pleasant for the desktop than Ubuntu 8.04″”
I have been using etch for at least 1 year and it has been Great.
However I have two Kubuntu 8.04 and one Kubuntu 8.10 installs they both lack the fit and finish of Debian etch.
I will be installing Lenny within the week.
After 15 years of using LINUX ..Caldera, Turbo, Slackware, Red Hat, Debian, SuSE, Xandros, Mepis, Kubuntu and Debian… I find stability the most important single aspect if I had to pick only one of an OS. So Debian wins.
Ubuntu is somehow a cheap copy of Debian. Simply filling the unstable main branche with the newest GNOME version and many proprietary drivers and you have Ubuntu, but, however, it’s the best beginner-friendly distro for home pcs. If beginners install Debian on their pcs, they will probably notice that some hardware can’t be recognized. If they have, for example, an Atheros chipset in their WLAN card, they have to browse through many web pages until they’ve figured out that they need to use the module-assistant to compile the madwifi-module and then modprobe to load it. Why do they have to do that if they simply want to use Linux as a desktop which can be immediately used after installation? And then, if they like Ubuntu, they will read more about it and will automatically find out that there are a lot of other Linux distros, which may better meet their needs. So, by my opinion, Ubuntu shouldn’t die, although it’s not the best thing.
hi all,
two points mentioned by my fellow-writers are very important at all.
one newbe needs to see, that people all over the world are working on these huge software projects (open source repositories)! so getting them to linux is important! in this respect ubuntu did a great job.
and stability is the mother of deductive reasoning. deductive reasoning is the father of computer science.
if you loose well defined order through bugs, … your assumption may prove wrong and therefore your deductive reasoning as well (road to chaos man!).
as the philosophy of unix states: the more (intelligent) the filesystem organized, the less efficient the algorithm has to be.
getting bugs in productive systems is to require the programmer to write epic (that is very context sensitive and intelligent) code.
(that is you need an elite to find solutions to local problems… and thats impossible)
and now i will go and
think of debian for may x32 thinkpad 🙂
Well, the problem you have is that you think you are too smart. Which I believe you think you are. By saying that Ubuntu is dying, you have become one such stupid jerk who say stupid things and harm the adoption of GNU/Linux. Those who are migrating from Windows to GNU/Linux find Ubuntu to be quite friendly and your post simply shake their confidence and they can’t use Debian you know that too. So, stop writing stupid blogs and get a decent understanding. Also, its FREE SOFTWARE and not open source you jack ass. I told ya, you belive you are smart which you are not. Think twice before writing such blogs, you are doing more harm to GNU/Linux than any good.
one angry Indian… 😉
Imho, as of version 5.0.2., lenny sucks in terms of ease of setup. After two days I still could not work around several problems, including installing a well-known wireless driver, gdm start behavior, and keymapping. My lan (!) adapter (not wlan!) is not working. I haven’t even yet started to fiddle with audio and multimedia stuff.
Nearly all of these have been working out of the box on Ubuntu since at least Gutsy. Debian configuration is still all but simple if you run into problems. Knowing your Linux basics won’t help, if you are not actually a DEBIAN crack who knows its ways around the particular configuration files you are pretty much doomed.
I am aware that Ubuntu can be regarded as a Debian rip-off by some, but the effort they put into ease of use is well worth it, and Debian developers should not be too proud to take some of that work back into their system.
so doing a squid or ssh server config in Ubuntu is easier and less in depth than Lenny …. Ummm maybe its harder to install programs in Lenny …Ummm same girl different knicker,s i thought… Ubuntu is a great OS and its growing popularity surely shows this …debian for my servers and a nice cutting edge OS like Ubuntu for my desktop …..
I guess you could call me a noobie.
Thing is, I have to run MS office 2007 on my system. I can’t have a single filetype related compatibility issue. It would me too much a risk to my grades.
Basically, the only thing that is going to keep me in the Windows or Mac world is MS Office. Although, I everyone started to use odf format then I would switch to Linux pernamentaly. I’m thinking of contacting MS and asking for them to start making versions for Linux. If enough people do that they will respond, as they have in the past. It just needs to happen at the same time.
Also, come to think of it:
I use linux as a free gaming system with thousands of free games right now. If an easy to use linux games directory/installer was made, the communities could advertise about how, by adding Linux to your system, you can get thousands, or probably millions of free games of various quality. All you need is a desktop and an internet connection.
That would get Linux on many systems since gamers tend to know the most about computers in the average family. Then, by bundleling in open office, the switch to there would be much more easy…
I have used many flavors of Linux since 1990’s
I used Debian Etch (64 bit) for years on my AMD computers. Worked great.
Then comes Lenny. The most unreliable POS I have ever used.
Every time I install a new piece of software something fails. And fails badly.
Hangs the whole system, requiring a power cycle. Not ready for Primetime.
I need a system that is up 24/7. One like OpenSuse that consistently has segmentation faults out of the libraries is frustrating enough, but I cannot have the whole damn machine going down whenever Lenny decides to take a crap. Is it X? Who knows? What is reliable anymore?